Forums - I think I know why USA loses to Japan in SFA3 and SF3S Show all 33 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Fighting Game Discussion (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=8) -- I think I know why USA loses to Japan in SFA3 and SF3S (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=13739) Posted by StreetfighterV2 on 04:20:2001 03:17 AM: I admit I haven't been to a tournament but hearing is beleiving and i came up with a reason why. BECAUSE NO ONE EVER TALKS ABOUT THEM ANYMORE. IT'S JUST MVC2. BLAHBLAH BEST TEAM, INFINTES, TRAPS, BEST ASSISTS, AND WORST OF ALL....WISHING FOR MVC3!!!!! YEAH IT'S FUN BUT JEZZ, THERE ARE OTHER GAMES. Just want opinions. Posted by Shock Mega X on 04:20:2001 03:18 AM: No, it's because they're just plain worse at them. Trust me, it's not hard to believe. Posted by DrunkinB on 04:20:2001 03:33 AM: quote: Originally posted by Shock Mega X No, it's because they're just plain worse at them. Trust me, it's not hard to believe. Their is truth in that Posted by kyo717 on 04:20:2001 06:41 AM: i think usa caught up wit the japan in sfa3 but 3rd strike is sumthing else. Posted by Mr. Friendly on 04:20:2001 05:58 PM: I personally think most of the US players (including top players) just don't have those kind of crazy reflex as MANY Japanese or Asian players have. No offense to US players, just opinion. Actually I believe this is a fact. Many Japanese or Asian players can easily connect one random poke into super(such as Chun-Li's)!! This require very very fast reflex!! They throw out pokes randomly, any of those connect, (1 hit) then can connect to super right away! I am not talking about after a parry or the opponent made a mistake, is just any random poke. Daigo did that in the US vs Jap video. A random c.mp connect XX SA-III. This is the most impressive thing he did in the video, IMO. To connect a super after multiple hit is very easy, but one hit (poke) without knowing whether the fast poke is goign to connect or not, that's kinda hard I think. Or maybe is just I suck. Posted by DavestA on 04:20:2001 06:02 PM: the level of competition for both A3 and 3S is much higher.. in japan then here in the US Posted by Randis :: on 04:20:2001 06:51 PM: trash I was in HongKong in Tokyo on business, of coz i went to arcade to play SF there. Great players i say! I think... the realy best players don't play online. Most play with friends at home face to face. I have a japanese DC, but no modem... But i play the SF series since SF2 came out on arcade, now I play SFIII 3th.. dayly 2-3 hours. (yep, i have time, it's my job. ^^) So, if somene wants trash, come to visit me. ^^ Posted by Elu on 04:20:2001 07:58 PM: quote: Originally posted by Mr. Friendly I personally think most of the US players (including top players) just don't have those kind of crazy reflex as MANY Japanese or Asian players have. No offense to US players, just opinion. Actually I believe this is a fact. Many Japanese or Asian players can easily connect one random poke into super(such as Chun-Li's)!! This require very very fast reflex!! They throw out pokes randomly, any of those connect, (1 hit) then can connect to super right away! I am not talking about after a parry or the opponent made a mistake, is just any random poke. Daigo did that in the US vs Jap video. A random c.mp connect XX SA-III. This is the most impressive thing he did in the video, IMO. To connect a super after multiple hit is very easy, but one hit (poke) without knowing whether the fast poke is goign to connect or not, that's kinda hard I think. Or maybe is just I suck. Its not random. Daigo did an early St. Strong link to Cr. Strong then into the Super. Also in Japan they just don't automatically react. They pump the motion for the super.. so they do qcf, cr. fwd see if it hits and then finish the second qcf motion for the super. This is easier to do on Japanese sticks since they are looser. Elu Posted by Hentai on 04:20:2001 08:29 PM: the problem is, people here don't like 3s.. most "sf" players dont like it because its slower and more complex, US players seem to like a faster pace then 3s offers. personally i like 3s, a3, st much more then the VS games, but it seems like im the odd man out on this one. not that i have anything against them i suppose (so mega mech zangief or super hyper omega red or any of those people, dont flame me.) Posted by Scarlet_Mirage on 04:20:2001 08:29 PM: Just a tad off-topic: I think I know why Japan loses to US in MvC2: CAUSE WHEN THE JAPANESE WANT TO PLAY A BUTTON-MASHER, THEY PLAY BISHI-BASHI-CHAMP !!!! hehe, just kidding, all you MvC2 fans...=o) Posted by Mr. Friendly on 04:20:2001 08:48 PM: Elu: Daigo didn't do a st. strong before the c.strong. He walk back and forth for distance and pull out a c.mp to poke. And I really think Daigo didn't do qcf, c.mp before he did the remain part of super, because a couple friends of mine in Hong Kong actually DO have the reflex to do this. They ask me to learn but I just can't. So please don't think it is impossible, I actually SAW people do have this reflex playing in front of me. I even remember Choiboy had say something about Japanese Chun-Li players can connect their c.mk pokes to SA-II everytime it connects!! (that's long time ago, something article or thread related to US vs Jap) I didn't believe this until I actually saw people are that good. Posted by Mr. Friendly on 04:20:2001 09:07 PM: Elu: I just want to add something. I just watched the video again. Before Daigo did the super in the first round, I watched it by super slow motion, non-stop pausing, so I can watch it really carefully. Daigo didn't have any st.mp or there wasn't ANY crouching move before he pull out the c.mp for what I see. So I really believe that he didn't do the qcf, then c.mp as you said I guess. =] What he did was, back, forth, back, forth, c.mp XX SA-III. And it was not even close for Daigo to chip Hsien to death before the c.mp connect. Peace Posted by HyperViperSniper on 04:20:2001 09:12 PM: honestly I read somewhere on this board by a player from Japan.. I think it might be White.. anyway..if not sorry.. Japan has alot of manga...(comics here in the US) MarVsCap2 didnt appeal to alot of Japanese players simply because they didnt really know who the characters from Marvel were.. they were use to the Street Fighter characters..so they played alot of SF characters and we all know its hard to beam a Marvel team with all SFs.... in the US 3rd strike lost alot of fans because of the parry system..it was new and in all honesty a little difficult to grasp.. then we have Marvel Vs Capcom... BIG combos..teams.. AND all the characters from the other VS games with a few new ones tossed in..Characters alot of these game players grew up with.. 3rdS fell to the side and didnt get alot of publicity...Arcades pack their locations with Money Makers...(MarVsCap2) which appeals to hard core gamers as well as Adults..Kids...and everyone can play because it has alot of recongnizable characters... so with all that said 3rdS fell behind by default..so while that was steady getting big in Japan..America lost alot of chances for good competition in the states.. Japan lost interest in MarVSCap because over half the characters were people they had never heard of...no storyline and nothing really "new" in their opinion... so over there IT fell to the waistside.. both of them being good games and both of them being interesting just two different countries with two different tastes.. as far as Alpha..I think alot of the hardcore Alpha players stopped playing to get involved in MarVsCap2...so alot of that competition was gone..so even the good players didnt have alot of folks to play against..in Japan they tend to play games forever and ever, even on the competitive market..Arcades over there are alot more willing to invest in game cabinets like Alpha and 3rdS compared to over here.. sad but true.. American Arcades are usually all about the money.. so the bottom line.. Distribution of the games in America were bad compared to Japan..thus cutting off a large portion of hardcore following.. MarVSCap2 was built for an American Audience (IMO)..hard for other countries to grasp the Marvel characters... Japan players appreciated 3rdS alot more..where as America felt as if Capcom betrayed them by adding a parry system... later.. HVS Posted by BloodRiotIori on 04:20:2001 09:20 PM: hey, forgot 'bout europe. underdogs 'haha'......... just watch us play Posted by Mr. Friendly on 04:20:2001 09:28 PM: HyperViperSniper: You had some really good points!! I agree with you! KOF comics were so popular in Hong Kong, maybe that's why KOF game series are so popular in Hong Kong too!! People are more willing to play games that have characters that they know, I think this is very true HVS! Posted by B_IzM on 04:20:2001 09:43 PM: quote: Originally posted by Mr. Friendly Elu: I even remember Choiboy had say something about Japanese Chun-Li players can connect their c.mk pokes to SA-II everytime it connects!! (that's long time ago, something article or thread related to US vs Jap) I didn't believe this until I actually saw people are that good. John Choi said that "every" time they hit a Low Forward they would be doing the super motion. Also it is very easy for someone to do ROBO Chun. Here what I usually do and it never fails on me. Basically whenever I hit low forward I start doing the super motion no matter what. Now after I hit low forward I dont let go of the button I just hold it. and If they block or parry it I dont do anything, but as soon as I hear it hit I just hit short and BOOM Super. The reason I hold the button is cause sometimes you can accidentaly activate the super. The same thing can be applied to Ken too. LatEz, B-IzM Posted by Mummy-B on 04:20:2001 10:21 PM: quote: Originally posted by Elu Its not random. Daigo did an early St. Strong link to Cr. Strong then into the Super. Also in Japan they just don't automatically react. They pump the motion for the super.. so they do qcf, cr. fwd see if it hits and then finish the second qcf motion for the super. This is easier to do on Japanese sticks since they are looser. Elu It has nothing to do with the joysticks. Trust me, I live there. Posted by BarrelO on 04:20:2001 11:40 PM: Dude, I know why the US lost. The machines they played on were rigged. You know how I could tell? Whenever someone used Akuma, wherever Akuma's name was supposed to be, it said "Gouki." For those of you who don't know Japanese, "Gouki" means "The machine is set on 'Japan automatically wins' mode." So there you go. Posted by Havoc911 on 04:21:2001 12:17 AM: A lot of people are saying a lot of different things about how the Japanese have advanced tactics that they use and what not, but clearly, for anyone to develop those tactics, the game has to be played. A lot. The game never caught on in the US like it should have. Too many people are too impatient to learn a game like 3S. And the points about character recognition doesn't really make sense. Most of the characters in Street Fighter III are new, so using the same logic that HVS used to explain why MvC2 isn't played in Japan as much as 3S, I could say that the Japanese, theoretically, never should have gotten into SFIII. Plus, after five Marvel games, the Japanese should have some sort of afinity to the characters. Oh, and KoF comics are big in Japan because the game is big in Japan, not the other way around. Posted by TeamR on 04:21:2001 12:58 AM: The reason? Not because asians have faster reflexes (or they'd be better athletes ) Not because of any conspiracy Its because the leaders in this "SF Community" arent taking a leaders role. First off, about the supers, you must realize that Japanese arcade sticks are waaay better than American. Once you get the feel for it it really does improve your game because a large ammount of movement isnt needed like in the US. And face it, the reason games like MvC2 are so popular is because nobody tries to get others interested in it. If you had never played a fighting game before, and you came across SRK.com, from the type of posts, and thigs like 3s and a3 getting cut from the top tournament in the country. What game would you want to play? MvC2 obviously. The mods and top players always spread shit about 3s only being popular in Japan and a few places in the states, that is utter bullshit. Those Cali guys decide they like MvC2 and not 3s, so they always lean towards MvC2 when they get a chance. And this ripples through the entire country. They dont realize how large of an influence they really are. In Japan all games get play. KOF gets play, 3s gets play, alpha gets play, MvC2 gets play. Its entirely possible for US players to beat Japan players in games like 3s. But if you always lean towards MvC2, or any one game for that matter, its never gonna happen Posted by TeamR on 04:21:2001 01:01 AM: quote: Originally posted by Mummy-B It has nothing to do with the joysticks. Trust me, I live there. I live here too (Aomori city, Aomori) and it has alot to do with the sticks. American sticks are crappier, its true. Jap sticks are superior in almost every way. You dont have to put the same ammount of effort into Jap sticks to get results, but they do take a bit of "getting-used-to" Posted by kyo717 on 04:21:2001 04:34 AM: i almost totally agree with teamr, except with the joystick. i dun think joystick has anything to do with it (also one of the lamest excuses in the arcades) if the sticks are workin'/playible then all u have to do is relie on ur skill. the stuff about mvc2 in california and no 3s popularity here, we have fair amount of comp here in most games that r good like tekken tag, alpha 3, 3rd strike, and others. but probably mvc2 is california most popular game. Posted by Brenner on 04:21:2001 04:49 AM: Seriously the sticks are a huge factor but only if they give you a stick that you're not used to. I got the DC arcade stick at home, its japanese style. I go inot the the arcades here in Australia and get floored cuz I'm not used to the tight ones. In Australia they class us as Europe(god knows why) when it comes to games so we have Euro style sticks. They look like the jap ones but the ball is smaller and the stick is taller and the movement area is recduced like 90%. I dunno how your USA sticks are but the alot of jap sticks I've seen have a square where the stick fits in not a circle, so the picture for shoryuken(the Z+p)really works its not forward then half-hadoken+punch. Posted by Insomnia on 04:21:2001 04:51 AM: i hate you all Posted by Ryu1999 on 04:21:2001 07:12 AM: quote: Originally posted by BarrelO Dude, I know why the US lost. The machines they played on were rigged. You know how I could tell? Whenever someone used Akuma, wherever Akuma's name was supposed to be, it said "Gouki." For those of you who don't know Japanese, "Gouki" means "The machine is set on 'Japan automatically wins' mode." So there you go. HHAHAHAHAHA. dude i think its the same with vega and bison. Posted by Elu on 04:21:2001 07:05 PM: quote: Originally posted by Mr. Friendly Elu: I just want to add something. I just watched the video again. Before Daigo did the super in the first round, I watched it by super slow motion, non-stop pausing, so I can watch it really carefully. Daigo didn't have any st.mp or there wasn't ANY crouching move before he pull out the c.mp for what I see. So I really believe that he didn't do the qcf, then c.mp as you said I guess. =] What he did was, back, forth, back, forth, c.mp XX SA-III. And it was not even close for Daigo to chip Hsien to death before the c.mp connect. Peace Yup. We were both talking about the wrong matchup. I was thinking about watson vs daigo and you were talking about hsien vs daigo. So you were right on that one. Elu Posted by tempest on 04:21:2001 11:24 PM: reason we did very low in sfa3 and sf3rdstrike is the level of comp i mean in sfa3 we discovered ryu crounching cancel, but in japan they discover pretty much everybodys , and they knew how to stop vism chracters with aism chracters. and they study ever bit of animation in sfa3 and sf3 so thats how they could link pretty much anything cuz they knew timing, in mvc2 just didn't appeal to them like old school games . thats my own opinion from reading , and watching movies. peace Posted by TS on 04:21:2001 11:54 PM: tempest- from what I've heard, the Japanese do like MvC2. They're just not as good as it as America is yet. That simple. quote: Originally posted by TeamR And face it, the reason games like MvC2 are so popular is because nobody tries to get others interested in it. If you had never played a fighting game before, and you came across SRK.com, from the type of posts, and thigs like 3s and a3 getting cut from the top tournament in the country. What game would you want to play? MvC2 obviously. The mods and top players always spread shit about 3s only being popular in Japan and a few places in the states, that is utter bullshit. Those Cali guys decide they like MvC2 and not 3s, so they always lean towards MvC2 when they get a chance. And this ripples through the entire country. They dont realize how large of an influence they really are. You are the most paranoid man on the earth. And your logic is flawed in several areas. One of the bigger ones being that you're in Japan, and you're trying to tell people how popular 3S is all around the states. And for the last time everybody, SFA3 IS NOT BEING CUT FROM B5. Thank you. Posted by omni on 04:22:2001 12:16 AM: quote: Originally posted by TeamR Not because of any conspiracy Its because the leaders in this "SF Community" arent taking a leaders role. No conspiracy? You seem to be implying one here.... quote: The mods and top players always spread shit about 3s only being popular in Japan and a few places in the states, that is utter bullshit. Those Cali guys decide they like MvC2 and not 3s, so they always lean towards MvC2 when they get a chance. And this ripples through the entire country. They dont realize how large of an influence they really are. In Japan all games get play. KOF gets play, 3s gets play, alpha gets play, MvC2 gets play. So you are going to attempt to tell American players what is and isn't popular when you don't even live here?!?! Do you see any of us saying, 'Since GGX is so popular in Japan - we are going to hold a GGX tournament!' In japan, yes all games do get play. That is not the case here in america. I don't care what you wish to think, but there is no 3s competition in America. The Street Fighter series has never had large tournament turnout. Before or after SRK - and if nothing else, the few 3s tournaments there are have prolly had a larger turnout since SRK started up. Derek Daniels omni@shoryuken.com www.shoryuken.com Posted by Froot Loop on 04:22:2001 12:33 AM: omni, So what do you think it is about 3rd strike that makes it so Unpopular in the US? I for one like that game more than any other Street fighter game made... The only think it Lacks is Dan. Posted by DemiDeviMatt on 05:09:2001 01:49 AM: there is a reason y they woop our asses in sf games..because u go to japan and u go into a arcade every 5 stores or so...and go in there all u see r ddr and sf games...no one even plays mvc2...just sf...and im not even joikng... Posted by ductility on 05:10:2001 01:12 PM: About random connect one hit into Super Art, we call this skill is confirmable. For example, Chunli 2mk (17 frame), Dudley hk (19frame), Ryu type 2lk * 2 (21 frame). the brackets is Confirmable time. Honest speaking, this is't a tought skill(If confirmable time larger than 15 frame). We usually use these skill in Taiwan. If you have DC, can downlaod the DC replay file from our web. I saw the movie. Ken 2mp Confirmable time is 12~13 frame.So Diago is a excelent player. Besdie, I saw movie of the Texas Showdown tournament on March 11, 2001. The SF33 player in US also use this skill. Especially Hsien or Mark. Hsien's Akuma is awesome. Posted by ductility on 05:10:2001 01:28 PM: And I also believe Daigo 2mk + SA3 is't coincidence. The SF33 tokyo movie from hesong. Ken vs Gouki Ken also use 2mp + sa3. I think this skill is very tight. not like 2mk + 236p + sa3. All times are GMT. The time now is 01:09 AM. Show all 33 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.